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> It's not semantics, Jon. The left is not a natural ally of propertarians. The right may be.

Ah, finally I can see the root of it...that's what I've been chasing!  There's nothing to argue about since you have reasonable bases for that belief.  "The right may be," I mean.  That's utterly wrong IMO...having a say in your property this way is exactly the same--at root--as having a say in your property that way.

My case isn't quite that strong.  I can almost hear you..."But if the way they control your property is much closer aligned with how you would control it, isn't that the reality of the matter and isn't that what counts?"  Not a bad argument, but I'm strongly inclined to think not.  Were you to ask why, the best I've got is "hierarchy," both cognitively and physically.
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General Discussion / Re: Captain's Journal: "I do not understand the anarchists".
« Last post by pelletfarmer on February 20, 2017, 10:51:54 am »
I've never once called myself an anarchist, though I have agreed that I meet what some others define as anarchist.  I too like voluntarist and abolitionist, but I'm starting to disfavor abolitionist only on the basis that it's built of the other.  I sure agree with the abolition of slavery though; that would be nice.

I'm stickin' with what I believe captures it best, even though I think it's had other meanings---Consensualist.  Probably either voluntaryist or voluntarist will stick over the long haul.
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Larken, Justin King and a lefty debate some of these issues...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMvwFOjPLfw&t=12s

When should you shoot a cop meets when should you punch a nazi.
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I agree that the Left isn't an ally of private property anarchists.

And obviously private property will be used as the owners wish. There is no contratemps on these points.

My issue is with aligning with nationalist authoritarian statist conservatives, (who want to throw people out of helicopters or who want to ethnic cleanse non whites) simply because they aren't leftists. Just because racial separatists would exist in a stateless world, doesn't mean I have to support them. The same in regards to the communists. There undoubtedly will be voluntary communal arrangements, worker owned companies who reject 'bossism' and whatever else they stand against...but that doesn't mean I should be friends with them and invite them into my house.

I think a better analogy wouldn't be Wyoming vs North Korea, it would be Nazi Germany vs Communist Russia.
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I completely agree with Rothbard's later work. Alliances must be struck or anarchocapitalism is doomed to irrelevancy at least for a very long time.

Quote
Spencer advocates 'peaceful ethnic cleansing' and a white, national Ethno-State. He is not an alliance worth anything in my view. Semantics, Nazi, fascist, WN or not, etc. doesn't matter to me. The Alt Right is horribly statist and could hardly be any sort of ally.

This stuff frustrates me. All statist are not the same. I'd rather live in Wyoming than N.Korea. It's not semantics, Jon. The left is not a natural ally of propertarians. The right may be. Like I said, a private property society would not be egalitarian by any means, and if the racists want to use their property to be racists, then so be it. This stuff would exists in that kind of society.
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Ben Stone tweeted this morning that Rothbards biggest mistake was thinking he could make worthwhile alliances with the Left or Right. He put that perfectly.

Spencer advocates 'peaceful ethnic cleansing' and a white, national Ethno-State. He is not an alliance worth anything in my view. Semantics, Nazi, fascist, WN or not, etc. doesn't matter to me. The Alt Right is horribly statist and could hardly be any sort of ally.

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Tucker is not the man he once was. He is a leftist now. Read his work from the eighties and nineties, compared to his work now, and you'll see what I'm talking about. I have no respect for the man at all anymore.

Yup, Tucker told fascists that they weren't allowed there, but revolutionary leftists were. Makes ya think, doesn't it?

Spencer is not a national socialist. He's a fascist inspired by Evola and other European fascists. And these people are more of allies to private property anarchists than radical commies. A private property society would be horribly inegalitarian, and nothing close to what anyone on the left wants.
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Quote
Jeff Tucker tells Spencer that Fascists aren't welcome at an anti-fascist event ie. Int. Students for Liberty Conference

I think Tucker missed a brilliant opportunity to have a debate with the national socialists here and take them apart.

Spencer can brag about this victory.
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I agree with Paul that there is to much worrying about them, for sure.

Related to the Richard Spencer Nazi Punch:

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/breaking-richard-spencer-kicked-isflc-17-jeffrey-tucker-confrontation/

Jeff Tucker tells Spencer that Fascists aren't welcome at an anti-fascist event ie. Int. Students for Liberty Conference
Spencer is thrown out by the hotel security afterwards. (not caught in the video from the article)

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General Discussion / Re: Captain's Journal: "I do not understand the anarchists".
« Last post by Paul Bonneau on February 17, 2017, 01:26:51 pm »
A few years ago I thought that saying I was an anarchist was a useful lead-in for a discussion. Perhaps I was right then, it's hard to say. But with the current associations now showing up everywhere, I guess I am going to stop using that word. Anarcho-capitalist still seems useful though, because the people breaking windows are clearly not capitalists. Or abolitionist or voluntaryist would be OK too. Mostly I am referring to myself as "an apostate from the Government Religion". A bit wordy but pretty clear (assuming people understand what "apostate" means  ::) ).
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