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21
General Discussion / Re: Oregon and MWR AAR
« Last post by afederalrepublican1776 on January 31, 2016, 05:52:41 pm »
They should of read 21-75-3 / Dismounted patrolling first. Piss poor planning.

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General Discussion / Re: Oregon and MWR AAR
« Last post by AZRedhawk44 on January 31, 2016, 01:24:03 pm »
http://weaponsman.com/?p=29146

Excellent commentary here.

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There are some lessons learned here:

1.    If you provoke an armed encounter with the authorities, you’re going to get an armed encounter with the authorities. They can’t and won’t back down; they understand that any loss of face risks a collapse in the social order, so they will meet such a challenge every time.
2.    Cue the late Bobby Fuller: LaVoy Finicum fought the law, and the law won. Regardless of who did what, he’s still dead, and there were many times he could have made a decision that would not have left him dead, regardless of what the FBI did or intended. (Except for the occasional sociopath who slips through, and contrary to what a lot of Bundy supporters seem to think about them, Special Agents are not fangs-out hoping to kill anybody).
3.    The FBI, and most agencies, need more post-shooting transparency. Don’t believe us? Mental exercise: this shootout happens in Chicago or NYFC, and LaVoy and his crew are black gangbangers. What would The Reverends be saying by now? How would the Post and the Times be covering it? In this case, the Bureau lucks out: the national media sympathize with the FBI because the criminals are the media’s favorite boogeymen. Ask Wilson Goode what the media does when the criminal movement (in his case, MOVE) are minority members and your cops whack ’em.
4.    Absence of information (and media fabrications to fill the 24-hour news cycle in this absence) is the fertilizer that makes conspiracy theories grow. Conspiracy theories lead to people’s estrangement from ordinary society. Estrangement leads to “compounds” and standoffs. If you’re The Law®. you should want to disincentivize that process of estrangement and incentivize normal, rational paths of dispute resolution.
5.    Administrative law is increasingly looking lawless, with its administrative “courts” a rubber stamp, not a normal, rational path of dispute resolution.

Someone else chiming in here with "if you bring your gun to a gunfight, bring your gunfighter" but in different words.  There's some samurai fatalism here in this representation of it, and in the initial phases of a revolution that's appropriate.  The owners of the first shots are most likely not getting out alive even if they break perimeter containment or wipe out an HRT force.

It amazes me just how many people are YEARNING for a conspiracy here.  Point #4 is an excellent one to take home.  Not that we want to be "normal" in terms of most of society... but information trumps AgitProp from either side of this issue.  And each side is pumping out AgitProp like you wouldn't believe.  Video
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General Discussion / Re: Oregon Shindig
« Last post by Nate on January 31, 2016, 12:29:23 pm »
They took his kids when the siege started.
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General Discussion / Re: Oregon Shindig
« Last post by Klapton on January 31, 2016, 12:09:28 pm »
BTW I read the SHTF book by Finicum:

http://www.amazon.com/Only-Blood-Suffering-Regaining-Freedom-ebook/dp/B014901Q8Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454264702&sr=8-1&keywords=finicum

It's a pretty good example of the genre, if you can get by the constitutionalist mindset (it's not too overbearing in that respect). Also gives curious people a look into how he thought about things. I don't think demonizing him will work very well.

So, there's a BOOK?

Now we have it.  He is going to take care of his giant family by selling his book.

.
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General Discussion / Re: Oregon Shindig
« Last post by Paul Bonneau on January 31, 2016, 11:50:02 am »
Ever read "Under the Tonto Rim" by Zane Grey, copyright 1926? Here is a description of one of the two main characters, right on page 1:

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Lucy had graduated from high school and normal school with honors. Of the several opportunities open to her she had chosen one of welfare work among the backwoods people. It was not exactly missionary work, as her employers belonged to a department of the state government. Her duty was to go among the poor families of the wilderness and help them to make better homes... The fact that she had the welfare department behind her, and could use to reasonable extent funds for the betterment of these primitive people, was something of far greater importance."

It all seemed so innocent back then.  :'(   Everything government touches, turns to shit...

On the other hand, I had a neighbor in Wyoming, an old cowboy, who was a friend of Ralph Moody, the man who wrote the "Little Britches" series, a sort of counterpart to "Little House on the Prairie" except more slanted toward boys (and highly recommended, even for adults). In that series the people considered it shameful to accept help from others, even private help - never mind tax-funded help.
http://www.amazon.com/Little-Britches-Father-Were-Ranchers/dp/0803281781
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General Discussion / Re: Official MikeHomefire Meme Thread
« Last post by Paul Bonneau on January 31, 2016, 11:24:46 am »
A favorite of mine:

"The revolution occurs when the victims cease to cooperate."
-- Karl Hess
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General Discussion / Re: Oregon Shindig
« Last post by Bill on January 31, 2016, 11:22:22 am »
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I got into watching old black and white John Wayne movies for a while. I liked them but was shocked how often he played a federal agent. The indoctrination was going on even in 1950.

Paul,

You'll enjoy this; http://www.amazon.com/Commie-Cowboys-Bourgeoisie-Nation-State-Western/dp/1481114182/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454267933&sr=8-1&keywords=commie+cowboys
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General Discussion / Re: Oregon Shindig
« Last post by Paul Bonneau on January 31, 2016, 10:27:45 am »
BTW I read the SHTF book by Finicum:

http://www.amazon.com/Only-Blood-Suffering-Regaining-Freedom-ebook/dp/B014901Q8Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454264702&sr=8-1&keywords=finicum

It's a pretty good example of the genre, if you can get by the constitutionalist mindset (it's not too overbearing in that respect). Also gives curious people a look into how he thought about things. I don't think demonizing him will work very well.
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General Discussion / Re: Oregon and MWR AAR
« Last post by Paul Bonneau on January 31, 2016, 10:22:31 am »
They'd have been better off organizing an ordinary demonstration at the jail holding the Hammonds. (Part of their problem was wandering focus.)

Still, we should learn, but try to be restrained in our critique to the extent it is possible to do both at once. Revolution is something hard to do perfectly, using imperfect human beings.
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General Discussion / Re: Oregon Shindig
« Last post by Paul Bonneau on January 31, 2016, 10:17:35 am »
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There won't be as long as  panem et circenses continue.

Yes, comfortable people don't rebel. This is all just the run-up to the crash of the economy. Then the circuses stop.

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As an aside most mid-century cinematic Westerns tend to be collectivist wet dreams that lionize the government and the gun.

I got into watching old black and white John Wayne movies for a while. I liked them but was shocked how often he played a federal agent. The indoctrination was going on even in 1950.
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