Recent Posts

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21
General Discussion / Re: Should we vote for Trump?
« Last post by Klapton on August 20, 2016, 08:49:51 am »
One can vote defensively.  I have voted no on tax increases and on new taxes.  I have written in "No One" and assorted profanities on ballots.  These aggressed against no one.  And they ensured that I was eligible for jury duty - one of the only real things a libertarian can do to thwart the state without getting Waco'd.

That kind of voting isn't what we're talking about here. This thread has been specifically about voting for (or maybe against) a specific candidate for public office, for specific reasons.

You're right.  I forgot that this thread is about voting for Giant Douche to try to keep Turd Sandwich from winning.  Or something like that.

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22
General Discussion / Re: Should we vote for Trump?
« Last post by Klapton on August 20, 2016, 08:48:39 am »

I will agree with you on the minarchist thing.  People should be honest about it.  But that last statement is BS.  It is a blatant example of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.  Don't bother giving me the arguments about how voting violates NAP.  There is a lengthy thread here already about that.  One can vote defensively.  I have voted no on tax increases and on new taxes.  I have written in "No One" and assorted profanities on ballots.  These aggressed against no one.  And they ensured that I was eligible for jury duty - one of the only real things a libertarian can do to thwart the state without getting Waco'd.

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We obviously disagree on this. I'm fine with that.

IMO, any vote, whether it be in self-defense or not, gives legitimacy to the system. It admits that you agree that the system has power over you, that it owns you, instead of you owning yourself.

The system DOES have power over you.

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23
General Discussion / Re: Should we vote for Trump?
« Last post by MamaLiberty on August 20, 2016, 08:37:41 am »
One can vote defensively.  I have voted no on tax increases and on new taxes.  I have written in "No One" and assorted profanities on ballots.  These aggressed against no one.  And they ensured that I was eligible for jury duty - one of the only real things a libertarian can do to thwart the state without getting Waco'd.

That kind of voting isn't what we're talking about here. This thread has been specifically about voting for (or maybe against) a specific candidate for public office, for specific reasons.
24
General Discussion / Re: Should we vote for Trump?
« Last post by MamaLiberty on August 20, 2016, 08:35:07 am »
Quote
No, actual anarchists won't vote for anyone.

What, is that a rule for being an anarchist?  :) 

The definition of an anarchist is that there is no ruler (besides him/her self, of course). So no anarchist would make any such "rule" for someone else. I think voting for an external ruler isn't consistent with anarchism, obviously - but that's not mine to decide for you. Go ahead and vote, my friend. I'll still love you if you do or don't. You belong to you.

As for the nuclear thing... how does your "vote" change anything or prevent some a**hole who was "elected" from pushing the button? Why would you think one particular a**hole would not push the button if he/she was elected? Why would that purely hypothetical possibility cause you to abandon your previous stand on "voting?"
25
General Discussion / Re: Should we vote for Trump?
« Last post by DiabolusDementis on August 20, 2016, 08:25:54 am »

I will agree with you on the minarchist thing.  People should be honest about it.  But that last statement is BS.  It is a blatant example of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.  Don't bother giving me the arguments about how voting violates NAP.  There is a lengthy thread here already about that.  One can vote defensively.  I have voted no on tax increases and on new taxes.  I have written in "No One" and assorted profanities on ballots.  These aggressed against no one.  And they ensured that I was eligible for jury duty - one of the only real things a libertarian can do to thwart the state without getting Waco'd.

.
We obviously disagree on this. I'm fine with that.

IMO, any vote, whether it be in self-defense or not, gives legitimacy to the system. It admits that you agree that the system has power over you, that it owns you, instead of you owning yourself.
26
General Discussion / Re: Should we vote for Trump?
« Last post by Klapton on August 20, 2016, 08:07:10 am »
I'm with ML. Anarchists don't vote. That's not religion, just textbook definition. If you want to vote because you're afraid of something and have fallen for the fear mongering, then go ahead. Your prerogative.

I'll just say this- If you're leaning Libertarian/minarchist, fine. Just be honest with yourself about it. If you do vote, you can't claim to be anarchist, nor a proponent of ZAP/NAP.

I will agree with you on the minarchist thing.  People should be honest about it.  But that last statement is BS.  It is a blatant example of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.  Don't bother giving me the arguments about how voting violates NAP.  There is a lengthy thread here already about that.  One can vote defensively.  I have voted no on tax increases and on new taxes.  I have written in "No One" and assorted profanities on ballots.  These aggressed against no one.  And they ensured that I was eligible for jury duty - one of the only real things a libertarian can do to thwart the state without getting Waco'd.

.
27
General Discussion / Re: Should we vote for Trump?
« Last post by Paul Bonneau on August 20, 2016, 06:46:27 am »
Show me the definition!
28
General Discussion / Re: Should we vote for Trump?
« Last post by DiabolusDementis on August 20, 2016, 01:05:15 am »
Quote
No, actual anarchists won't vote for anyone.

What, is that a rule for being an anarchist?  :)  Nobody told me... since becoming an anarchist I've always thought voting was generally pointless, Tweedledum vs Tweedledee. And that there are other downsides to it. But nonvoting being a requirement for anarchists, that's getting into religion I think.

Seriously, if you were pretty sure candidate A was significantly more likely to get into nuclear war than candidate B, and that the overall risk of war was substantial, you still wouldn't vote? You'd look at the mushroom clouds forming on the horizon, and say to yourself, "At least I maintained my anarchist purity?" This just strikes me as doubtful.

Now, I can see it if the answer to at least one of those two questions is "no", and you really believe that is so. But that's not the same thing as saying, "actual anarchists won't vote".
I'm with ML. Anarchists don't vote. That's not religion, just textbook definition. If you want to vote because you're afraid of something and have fallen for the fear mongering, then go ahead. Your prerogative.

I'll just say this- If you're leaning Libertarian/minarchist, fine. Just be honest with yourself about it. If you do vote, you can't claim to be anarchist, nor a proponent of ZAP/NAP.
29
General Discussion / Re: Should we vote for Trump?
« Last post by Paul Bonneau on August 19, 2016, 06:06:51 pm »
Quote
No, actual anarchists won't vote for anyone.

What, is that a rule for being an anarchist?  :)  Nobody told me... since becoming an anarchist I've always thought voting was generally pointless, Tweedledum vs Tweedledee. And that there are other downsides to it. But nonvoting being a requirement for anarchists, that's getting into religion I think.

Seriously, if you were pretty sure candidate A was significantly more likely to get into nuclear war than candidate B, and that the overall risk of war was substantial, you still wouldn't vote? You'd look at the mushroom clouds forming on the horizon, and say to yourself, "At least I maintained my anarchist purity?" This just strikes me as doubtful.

Now, I can see it if the answer to at least one of those two questions is "no", and you really believe that is so. But that's not the same thing as saying, "actual anarchists won't vote".
30
General Discussion / Re: Joke of the day
« Last post by DiabolusDementis on August 17, 2016, 03:50:33 pm »
A man is in bed with his wife when there is a knock at the door. He rolls over and looks at his clock, and it's 3:30 in the morning. "I'm not getting out of bed at this time," he thinks, and rolls over.
Then a louder knock follows. "Aren't you going to answer that?" says his wife. So he drags himself out of bed and goes downstairs. He opens the door and there is a man standing on the porch. It didn't take the homeowner long to realize the man was drunk.
"Hi there," slurs the stranger. "Can you give me a push??"
"No, get lost! It's half past three. I was in bed," says the man and he slams the door. He goes back up to bed and tells his wife what happened and she says, "That wasn't very nice of you. Remember that night we broke down in the pouring rain on the way to pick the kids up from the babysitter and you had to knock on that man's house to get us started again? What would have happened if he'd told us to get lost?"
"But the guy was drunk," says the husband. "It doesn't matter," says the wife. "He needs our help and it would be the Christian thing to help him."
So the husband gets out of bed again, gets dressed, and goes downstairs. He opens the front door, and not being able to see the stranger anywhere he shouts, "Hey, do you still want a push?" And he hears a voice cry out, "Yeah, please." So, still being unable to see the stranger he shouts, "Where are you?"

And the drunk replies, "Over here, on the swing."

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